NU cumpărați Bavaria – Ep 230 – Lady K Sailing

31 thoughts on “NU cumpărați Bavaria – Ep 230 – Lady K Sailing”

1. Agree on most parts and love your videos:)
   It is worth mentioning that many northern european/scandinavian sailors rate Bavarias from the late 90's and up to around 2007 as some of the best production yachts. Highest quality interior and great performance. After that, not so good:)

2. Having beem an Grand Soleil and X yacht rep in the mid 90s. I must say they were hard to sell against. Those boats were nuce. The pre-euro market was a certain free for all. Lire was almost useless making Grand Soleil cheap while the Danish krone made the X yacht expensive.. Super interesting episode. I like certain things about Hanse but hate other things.
   I still rather have a 30 years old Swan, Baltic, Hallberg Rassey than almost any recent production boat. For the same money.

3. I think the business deal was not a good one in either direction.

4. “Cheap dentist office furniture” makes me want to run from vinyl wood grain covered particle board, while screaming who the fk would make this $hit!

5. Very fruitful

6. Cannot agree with your opinion on Bavaria boats. In fact its a bit irresponsible to do a video like this without naming explicitly what were the problems the boats had. And which models had the problems. Bavarias built between 2010 and 2013 were very solid boats, the best built by them till now. In 2010 they launched new “Farr” boats trying to polish the brand that had experienced serious problems before, including boats losing keels. I crossed the Atlantic in one of these “Farr” boats without incident (the furniture you mentioned was intact at the end of the crossing, no noises, nothing – well better than my experience crossing with other brands). In 2014 they changed their boats again. Two wheels, redesigned the furniture, … etc. and a couple of years after that they start cutting costs … yes, their boats now are inferior to those made between 2010 and 2013, but never heard of sinking threatening defects like those found on the pre-2010 models.

7. I don't love Bavaria, far from it. But, if you are going to slam a company in this way, then you need to do so on the basis of actual evidence and clear specific examples. Not speculation and "some words" in a press release. Terrible video. Downvoted.

8. I think jeanuea and Bavaria are like beneteau if you want to spend too much money on a not well thought out idea. same with the low end catamarans check plucky on sailing freedom these are regional boats made for charter company's so most the people buying or sailing them are charter oriented would I ever own one of these poorly designed or bad constructed boats I don't think so that's why these boats are for a bad demographic of sailors that don't know any better like a mcgregor,hunter,leapord,beneteau,jenuea,lagoon or any of the rest want a good boat go buy a hans christian or a swan or a oyster 10,000000000 times better boats

9. What about John Cherubini and early Hunter Sailboats ⛵️?!

10. From what I understand starting 2020+ they made a lot of changes. I mean look at how well the C42 has done.

11. In the Netherlands they are everywhere, older ones as well (20+), no major complaints, many newer and older models are in charter as well. They are as bad or good as any production boat from the past or present.

12. Sometimes is quite difficult to translate German, please verify that translation. Good channel

13. As you have said in your video, boats of all major brands are very similar, if a model is successful maybe 500 pieces are built, this is the amount, a car manufacturer is building to check for major flaws in the production process and will put these 500 cars to the scrap yard afterwards. I am owning a Jeanneau and I am very happy with it, but was considering buying a Bavaria as well. The very competitive boat market is forcing manufacturers to provide what people are asking for, and this is very often comfort in the anchorage and less often improved seaworthiness. (otherwise boats would look like a Dana 24 from the late 80ies – don't get me wrong, this was a nice boat but you would not sell a lot of them on a boat show today)

14. I recently owned a Bavaria 38 2008 crusier model. I have to say that the interior is what sold me. Back then it was done in light African Mahagony with well venlated cabinets. I never had any major issues but did replace the exhaust elbow with a SS one purchased from England for under $200. Also replaced a heater element in the hot water heater. It was a very solid boat and although I only owned it for 2 years (I was relocated to Japan) it really held up well. I had Catalina owners looking envious at the boat. The previous owner did upgrade the mainsheet blocks and add an arch. This one came with the 6.5ft keel which sailed extreemly well. I am a former racer on the Cheapeke and owned several Stiletto (23&30) catamarans and this boat sailed well. The only worry I had was the electrical panel which was very custom to Bavaria. It used relays behind the pannel on a PCB. To me it made something more complex than it really needed to be but I never had any failures (just worry). I also made sure I had extra relays on hand just in case. All other equipment was just like every other boat. A mixture of Harken/Selden/Raymarine. After owning for 2 years I sold the boat at the same price I purchased the boat. I would buy it all over again!

15. B'avaria used to be a pop group in my country but after ' the rest of the word avaria means an accident (like a traffic accident) or some disaster (like in Chernobyl) and B stands for a very popular curse word that means prostitute. Hence, not my brand, sorry. 🙂

16. It depends on the year. Until 2003 they are Awesome!!

17. Hanse video next

18. The retailer is always responsible for fixing defects.

    But only an idiot retailer would accept a 2% discount to let the manufaturer off the hook to support them in fixing defects. 5% may be realistic, 10% tempting but when the manufacturer has no incentive to deliver quality then guess what happens.

    From a manufacturer's perspective, do they really wan't a retailer who is incentivised to not support the product that bears their name?

    As a retailer, if you only have one supplier then you are screwed.

    From a buyer's perspective, why buy from a retailer who only sells one brand? They have no incentive to help you find the best product for your needs.

    This entire supply chain model sucks big ones.

19. Any franchisee who negotiates a 2% discount on half million dollar yachts and agrees to pay for any repairs on a piece of equipment that has thousands of moving parts that can be notoriously expensive to fix quite frankly deserves to go out of business. 15 – 20% possibly, more like 25-30% plus possible caveats.

20. There are some interesting and positive aspects to Bavarias and the Midshipman Channel mentioned them. The displacement weight for example got the Question "Where is all the extra weight going ?" and the answer was, it has to be in the fiberglass in the Hull. Below check, biggest issue appears to be knocked because people call it IKEA which is fair comment. But another interesting Comment is after years as Charter Boats, they survive it well, and probably a lot better than most brands that sell for Chartering. So tbh, there were a few models that could have made it pretty high up the list for my next boat. Oh and most engines are now Yanmar with Yanmar Saildrives (I'm not a fan of those, until 80hp and above can have the far superior – as good as Volvo ones – ZF Saildrive ). Then, as a Cruiser I hit the Big Problem Shallow Draft is the wrong side of my Shallow Draft Red Line, of Maximum Sraft 5ft. plus other well built models have Really Stupid Twin Rudders, which you cannot risk having on a Cruising Sailboat. So No Bavaria Sailboats are on my Purchase list, and the only Builder left, that can deliver everything I need to be able to still be on a Sailboat is Island Packet. Being disabled, the long list of IP standard Production Options can accommodate my needs with a new boat having them built in, at a far lower cost than Customising a Secondhand boat well enough for my needs, and even an expensive extra is probably worth me having, the Seldene automatic push button Sail Handling, is a standard Option. Obviously I would Prefer Not to Have that, but does opting for it make sense for me ? Unfortunately, Yes it does ( the Winches can also be operated manually, if there's a System Failure so it is pretty much a No Risk Option ). For the Mediterranean, a Bavaria Shallow Draft would be ok, and a lot of peiple never want their boats out of the Med. Pre 2010 Bavarias are very high quality, and a later, ex Charter one can be pretty low price. There is a firm in Britain that specialises in Refurbishing and upgrading Boats, and they do outstanding work with up to eye wateringly expensive very best materials if people want them. they do it fast too. My only connection with them was considering having them do a Sound Bavaria with an IKEA interior Upgrade. If considering doing something Similar, looking at the Work of SETAG Yachts Refurbishing Specialists. I was going to have them do all the Disability Customisations I need doing if getting a secondhand boat. There's a fair number of Videos of their Work on YouTube, and James of Boats dot Co dot UK has used them to do special work for his customers, which is a good recommendation James has Principles, and he even advises customers to never bother paying out to have ice makers on their boats, as they are only ever nothing but trouble plus don't make very nice ice. Customers need sellers like James to tell them exactly how things are. If James Says you will love this boat as much as I do, James means it. his videos are hilarious too. 😅 Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob in Wales. 👍

21. Fair Criticism Tim. Hopefully Bavaria are fully back on track soon, they are capable of making outstanding quality boats, but sadly there does appear to have been something really bad at work in Germany for quite a while, which can perhaps be best summed up as we don't give a shit about products with our name on them, and once we have their money, we don't give a shit about Customers either. Thank God there are still some exceptions like Sirius Yachts. Typical example – I had a very high quality precision German Barometer Which went down with my last Sailboat. It was such an outstanding piece of kit, when I had enough money I ordered a Stainless steel Marine Barometer from them. When it turned up, it turned out to be the flimsiest piece of Chinese made Crap with their name slapped on it. I've had other issues, a friend used to buy Mercedes Cars and Vans for his business, then they started rusting out and falling apart within two years. tried VW, similar issues, now he buys Ford. An awful insight look up German kitchen Appliances Customer Reviews. An Aunt bought a Bosch Washer Dryer, and it was a nightmare. They've lost the bloody plot tbh, and too many of these German Companies just don't care. This won't end well. 🤔

22. Bolt on keels? Never ends well. We Call them Bendys in Australia. First thing you do when you buy this plastic toy is glass on a 12mm stainless plate into the keel bilge then secure the keel on properly.

23. Hi Tim! You're Canadian, right? So why not do an episode on Grampians. Started in Canada with US-Designs, named after Scottish mountains, opened a branch in the US, took on Scottish an Dutch Designers, gave licenses to English yards (with strange differences between Canadian and Englisch boats) and also sold boats as kits. So – nobody really knows how many of them have been built. Oh, and of course there are insolvencies in the mix.
    Greets
    Ralf C.

24. We owned a 2016 Bavaria, purchased out of the bankruptcy sale. Had zero quality problems and found the woodwork to be superior quality to that in a beneteau or Jeanneau. Also found it sealed better than the jeanneau we had chartered. Would absolutely buy again, were it not for the fact we have our eyes on a different type of boat.

25. You're comparison between Bavaria and Hunter is god to explain to the audience in north America. When Bavaria got started there where a slue of small yacht builders in Europa and they had the choice of getting better or get wiped out. what went wrong i who'd sum it up as complacency and lack of vision, that is unfortunately all too common for companies that started as the dream of a visionary and whose airs sell it of to a holding company.

26. Bavaria is a land locked mountainous region of Germany, which is also where those boats are built… what do you expect from a Lederhosen boat?

27. We live on a Bavaria 1997 and although it was a pre-series test boat… the quality is outstanding. We found out that they almost bankrupted. Our boat was taken by a director instead of payment..then they just escaped the situation. The boat has a lot of real wood and high-quality laminates that even today look near new. In later years the production went up and quality went down at the same pace. But having said that we meet many Bavaria owners around the world and 99 out of 100 are very happy. Practical, liveable, and more space than in other brands are just a few of the positives. Easy to reach most technical parts.. But yeah things break. in our case so far its other brand stuff that breaks, not anything Bavaria produced. Hence your title comes across as shaming. We hear about oysters losing keels, Hunters, and Lagoons with problems… You don't say don't buy any if these. Like the lagoon 450 you just made a video about. As for BUSA and its issues. I am an insurance & investment professional and I hear about the 2% Bavaria paid for repairs and trouble-solving. I see that % as extremely low. But for that price the dealer may have been able to purchase "builders insurance'" IN case that was not possible they should have rejected the offer. And in hindsight, it was not realistic. Most boat owners know that the first year after purchase you run into issues. Its hard to understand from your video whether these where normal issues or real production failures. A manager than saying the quality needs to go up again, that, frankly does not mean anything. Given we can still cal Bavaria for support after all tthese years and get either amn advice or they help arrange the part…. Do buy one if you like them, they are great boats, especially the older types.

28. we will probably never find out the whole story. BUSA paints itself as an innocent victim, which I would also do when filing for bankrupcy. Design flaw and quality drop is not the main problem in my eyes, it is the impression of not owning it up, unlike the cat manufacturer you mentioned in the previous episode.

29. 👏🍻

30. I have to agree with Walter van der Boor that 2% discount to cover warranty work seems like a ridiculously low number. That's BUSA's fault to sign such a contract. I've owned a Bavaria 37, 2001, for 5 years, and to date it has been a solid reliable boat. Your history of this brand is very thin on content, you skip from the 1980's to 2014, so you are using a very broad brush to denigrate Bavaria boats. This seems to be a ' produce content video' without merit. I have no idea how the company is currently being run, or what quality of boats they are producing these days, other than my early attempts to contact Bavaria concerning a replacement part, from which I never received a reply. I also once was in the area where the Bavaria factory is, in Germany, and tried to 'drop in'. It's a huge complex, razor wire fenced in, front entrance locked with an intercom… they essentially told me to go away. But I am still happy with the boat I have, pretty well done for a production boat, and I have had a lot less issues with it than I had with my 1998 Island Packet, which I owned for 8 years, bought in 2000 with 40 engine hours, and dealt with multiple serious issues over those 8 years, all production issues. This is anecdotal info of course.

31. In Mediterranean sailing circles, Bavarias are known as low-medium-level economic boats, especially suitable for charter companies that take advantage of the insurance policies taken out by customers to finance repairs not necessarily caused by them… I would never buy a Bavaria for personal use, but there are those who think otherwise. The world is beautiful because it is varied, but you always get what you spend. I don't believe in miracles…

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